*opens another potential can of worms*

[elfie_chan]

Hrm. I heard on the radio today about a lady in Texas (whose name I don't know) who has been in a coma for thirteen years. Her husband is finally trying to allow her to die, as the chances of her coming out of the coma are next to none. Unfortunately, she isn't on life support (as far as I can tell), so the only way to let her die is to remove her feeding tube. To give her lethal injection or anything would be murder, right?

Well, practically all of Texas appears to be protesting this man's decision. They call it "a death sentence." (This is ironic to me as Texas is one of the few places where they still use the death sentence, but that is neither here nor there.) My question: How long should a person be kept alive before he/she is allowed to die?

My opinion: Let her go. That may sound really callous, but at this point, even if (miracle of miracles) she came out of the coma, she'd never be able to move on her own again. Her muscles would be completely atrophied. Also, she would have missed thirteen years of her life. She's essentially been dying for the past thirteen years. Let her finish and go with a little dignity.

Of course, she's not my daughter/sister/mother, so my opinion really doesn't count for much. I'm very interested in hearing what other people think on this issue. All I know is that, if it was me, I'd rather go than rack up hospital bills on the off chance that I'd wake up and be a constant burden on those around me.

Also, this makes me think of euthanasia. I agree that euthanasia needs to be majorly legislated and so on, but...there are hundreds of elderly people who commit suicide in nursing homes every day. They simply stop eating and starve themselves to death. It's sad, but it happens. I'm not sure if I even agree with euthanasia and assisted suicide, but it's definitely something to think about. Life at all costs, even if that "life" doesn't allow the person involved to do anything? Or a "dignified" death? And what happens if the person involved has no way to make his/her wishes known? Who should be able to make the decision?

Once again, I have a lot of questions, but no real answers. What do you think?

While you're thinking, enjoy these



What Anime Stereotype Are You?

I am...sensitive. *swoons* And beautiful. *rose petals fly through the air* Ah, angst. *dramatic wind*


You are a Pooka!! You are the ultimate prankster
and people person, able to puppet the emotions
of any crowd with the greatest ease. People
always come to you and tell you their secrets,
though sometimes you wish they wouldn't. You
have the type of aura about you that makes a
person feel as if they have known you for
years. But you sometimes have a problem with
telling the truth, whether by bold-face lying
or simply saying the opposite of what you mean.
Just be careful when dealing with others. Not
everyone will understand.


Which Changeling Kith Best Fits You?
brought to you by Quizilla

Are we surprised? No. Of course, I try to be honest and up-front, so that's a bit different...but the rest is pretty correct. ^_^v Pooka pooka pooka...POOKA POWER!


And now, I have homework to do. As eternalfire would say...FLEE!

EDIT: After honchi commented and told me the lady's name (Terri Schindler-Shiavo), I went to do some more research. First of all, she doesn't live in Texas; she lives in Florida. There are conflicting reports about her. Some people (her parents and friends) say that she is actually awake and responding to those around her. Others (the federal judges and her husband) say that she is in a vegetative state and there are no treatments to help her get better. I don't know what to think...even all this information is not enough for me to make a judgement. I have to say that certain elements on both sides are highly suspicious. The federally-appointed doctors, as well as the doctors that Terri's husband appointed, have all said that Terri is not going to get better. Meanwhile, the doctors that her parents have appointed (and only those doctors) have said that, with therapy, Terri's situation may improve. On the other hand, Terri's husband stands to gain a lot of money if Terri dies, and he's apparently already engaged to and living with another woman. See what I mean by suspicious? Still, I don't know. Does her husband only want her money, or is he just finally letting her go? Do her parents really believe that Terri can make it, or are they just keeping her alive as long as possible? What is really going on here? I'd hate to see anyone die needlessly, but, if they're not really living, then what do you do?

I think, in the end, it really boils down to who makes the decision. Is it her husband's right, or her parents' right? It should be her right, but no one really knows what she wanted. Her husband claims that she would never have wanted to live this way, but her parents say that's impossible. Who to believe?

In any case, the way she's going is inhumane. They've removed her feeding tube, and she's going to starve to death. Not a pretty way to go. In my opinion (and I know this sounds harsh), if they're going to let her die, they should let her die humanely--lethal injection or something. I'm not saying that murder is good or anything, but that way she won't suffer.

On the other hand, if she learns to eat in the meantime, she'll live anyway. Not much chance of that happening, unfortunately, as her husband has apparently denied any attempt at treatment to help her feed herself. Opinions? I'm just confused as Hell right now, pardon my language.

Comments

[nursemette.livejournal.com]

I find that very strange as well..
After all, we do allow our dear pets die when they're in pain and not getting better, are we? Shouldn't humans have that option too if they wanted?
If a person is deadly sick, can't live on his/her own and the closest relatives and such agree, let that person move on. It can be more merciful than letting the person lie in a coma for the rest of his/her life.
And it's pretty ironic that it's Texas. I'm personally against the death penalty. But this case would classify as active death help (losely translated from Norwegian, aktiv dødshjelp). It's not a murder, you just don't give the person what he/she needs to live. If a person close to me was in that scenario, I'm pretty sure I would want them to be set free from the pain and loneliness. Hell, I would want that too. My biggest fear is being unable to express myself and communicate with others. A longer life doesn't mean a better life.

I hope that man is alright and people will respect his desicion. It's his wife, and he will do what he believes is right for her.

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

Another problem that I forgot to mention is that all of the lady's other relatives seem to disagree with the husband's decision. Apparently, they've even offered to take care of her themselves.

Still...in my opinion, the lady isn't going to have any kind of a life, ever again. The whole situation is very sad.

Terri Schiavo

[honchi.livejournal.com]

(yeah, I like controversy and cans of worms and I guess that makes me just another strongly opinionated person... gomen. -.- *sighs*)

Anyways, that's her name (the one in the subject line). Yes, I've heard about her for some time now. It's quite sad, I agree... but if you knew why the husband wanted to kill her, you might want to change your opinion.

Apparently, she's worth a lot of money. And ontop of that, she has this huge chunk of money that is from her life insurance (I think) that her husband wants.

Her husband was cheating on her before she had gotten the disease. And she isn't in a coma, per se... she just has this rare disease that is named after her, actually. People just say she's a vegetable and in a coma, but when I read about it, it doesn't sound like a coma. A coma to me is basically having just your vital signs alive and your brain is toast. She's responding to people, so yeah... not a coma.

[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<_<>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

(yeah, I like controversy and cans of worms and I guess that makes me just another strongly opinionated person... gomen. -.- *sighs*)

Anyways, that's her name (the one in the subject line). Yes, I've heard about her for some time now. It's quite sad, I agree... but if you knew why the husband wanted to kill her, you might want to change your opinion.

Apparently, she's worth a lot of money. And ontop of that, she has this huge chunk of money that is from her life insurance (I think) that her husband wants.

Her husband was cheating on her <i><b>before</b></i> she had gotten the disease. And she isn't in a coma, per se... she just has this rare disease that is named after her, actually. People just say she's a vegetable and in a coma, but when I read about it, it doesn't sound like a coma. A coma to me is basically having just your vital signs alive and your brain is toast. She's responding to people, so yeah... not a coma. <_<

<a href="http://www.terrisfight.org/">Here is the site about her</a>.

If you want to read more about what's going on instead of deciding what you think should happen, that's the site to visit. I personally feel they're doing something wrong. It's like you and everybody else are ruling out the possibility of a miracle from God. True, I don't believe in suffering... but it honestly doesn't seem like she's <i>suffering.</i> It just seems like her so-called greedy husband just wants all of her money. *grumbles* v_v

Re: Terri Schiavo

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

Having checked out this webpage and other public articles (looked for newspapers, etc.), I'm not sure what's really going on. As I said in my Edit, there are way too many factors going into this, and the Foundation page is pretty biased (understandably). Thank you for leaving me the link, by the way. It gave me a fantastic amount of information, which I used to continue research on Terri and her continuing court battle.

I would also like to say that, when I wrote this entry originally, I was going on limited information, and I expressed my opinion based on that information. I thought she was in a coma, and had been for thirteen years. That's a long time to be in a coma. I also think I expressed my opinion in a way that said what I would want to happen to me, not necessarily to her. I, personally, would hate to be in a coma for thirteen years, even if I did wake up afterwards. I kind of feel like you're saying that I have no faith in God if I think that someone who's been in a coma for thirteen years is probably not going to come out of it. I do have faith in God. I also believe that God works in His/Her own way, and that's not always the way we expect.

I do believe that miracles happen. However, I also believe that people have to do what they believe is right. I would have a major problem if the husband really was just wanting to kill her for her money. However, despite his highly suspicious behavior, he may truly believe that his wife has no possibility for any kind of life now. He may truly think he is doing her a favor. (I'm totally giving him the benefit of the doubt here.) Of course, he may not. The point is, we don't know. We're not there, we can't read his mind, and all we know is what's published on the web and what we hear on the radio and see on TV. My main frustration with this whole situation is I don't feel like I have enough information. I want cold, hard facts. I wish I could look at her medical information, what the doctors are saying, something.

Another question: Is she merely brain-damaged, or actually in a "vegetative state?" I'd like it if I could get some kind of proof to answer that question, too. If she's merely brain-damaged and effectively handicapped, then does pulling her feeding tube mean that no handicapped child or adult (if the handicap is severe) has the right to live, either? How does that work? Can you only be defended if you have a voice to defend yourself?

Also, I have found no information that indicates that her husband was cheating on her before she had her attack (which most newspeople are now reporting as some kind of heart trouble). This does not make any of his actions okay, but it is an important distinction to make.

This whole case frightens and disturbs me. If she can move and think and try to speak, as her parents and friends claim that she can, then I think that the removal of the feeding tube is wrong. However, that is not my decision, painful as it is to admit. If she is a vegetable, it gets trickier. Who decides, in the long run, who gets to live or die? That's the big question, I guess.

Gah...I'm leaving horribly long comments...in my own LJ...well, I guess I have the perogative. ^_~

I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything. I'm just trying to see the truth--and that means trying to look at both sides.

[honchi.livejournal.com]

^^; Nono... I didn't mean to imply YOU directly had no faith in God. I'm sorry, I just jumped the gun and said something that was taken out of context a bit. ~_~

I would like facts, too... and you're right, the support site IS very biased and such, but I don't think much of their words could be fabricated too much, y'know? ~_~ I just don't like the fact of how she doesn't have a will and that all of that money would eventually go to her husband. If he really didn't want the money, then why not give it to her parents? Atleast half of it? Or donate it? :\ I dunno... -_-; Just seems... fishy... :\

Kinda off subject... when you said:

"I also believe that God works in His/Her own way, and that's not always the way we expect."

What did you mean about the "His/Her" part? :\ I can see how many may argue that God may be "gender-less"... but... well, just wanted to know what you meant by it, is all... *shrugs*

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

*smiles* No problem. I get a little touchy about that sometimes. Sorry.

Yes, I agree that her husband's behavior is kinda fishy. However, I also think it's kinda suspicious that even the court-ordered judges said that Terri is in a persistent vegetative state. My question, of course, is: "What does that mean? Really?" However...it seems rather odd to me that only the doctors ordered by Terri's parents say that there's any hope. I'm not sure what to think about that.

And when I say "His/Her," what I mean is that God is neither male nor female. He/She has the best aspects of both. It kinda bothers me that He/She is consistently referred to as "He" in English, when the original Hebrew apparently means "Mother/Father/Creator." Of course, that's a bit long to write out every time one mentions God. Heh.

Jesus was male, but I think that was mainly because no one would listen to a female in that culture. Spiritual leaders were overwhelmingly male, as far as I know.

[honchi.livejournal.com]

This may be a silly debate, but I thought I'd try to anyway. :\ Please don't take any offense to this.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
-Genesis 1:26"

I personally don't know Hebrew, but I have 2 friends (my old Pastor and my best friend's husband) that study Greek on a regular basis, and nowhere in there does it say that God is genderless or female (atleast in the new testament). It clearly states that God created man after His own image. And then created a woman from the man's ribs. It may all be anatomy (as scientists proclaim), but if you look at an x-ray of you and of Alex... you'll notice he has one less rib than you do...

The New testament states that (which was mostly written in Greek) God is masculine. Actually, He is Spirit, Son, and Father. Jesus referred to God as "His Father up in Heaven" many times throughout each and every translation of the bible.

Here is a good Link to read that Adam found: God and Gender: How Do We Address God? (http://www.victorshepherd.on.ca/Other%20Writings/god_and_gender_how_do_we_address_god.htm) ... if you're interested.


As far as Terri's situation... I'm just going to conclude that it is now out of everybody's hands. If God wants her to live, then He shall allow her to live. If not, then He will allow all of them to pull the cord -- no pun intended. ~_~ I'm just going to continue to pray that the right decision is made. The one thing that bothers me is that if he didn't want the money, then why didn't her husband just divorce her a long time ago, instead of committing adultery by cheating on her like he has done? :\

Gods Gender?

[haddassah.livejournal.com]

Hello there, elfies resident jewish friend, Haddassah, here. Just to let you know, the translations of the first testament from hebrew to greek are skewed in quite a few places, such as the 10 commandments, the original hebrew read "Thou shalt not commit murder" when it was translated, it became "Thou shalt not kill". Also, God is genderless in the old testament, it was simply a patriarchal thinking that gave God the gender of male.

Re: Gods Gender?

[honchi.livejournal.com]

Ok, I'm sorry... ~_~ I guess we'll all have our beliefs and we'll never know who is right and who is wrong. I really don't want to argue anymore what is right and what is not. *sigh* ~_~

I apologize for even bringing it up... gomen nasai Elfie-san... =_=

I'll leave ya alone now as well. I think I've probably crossed too many lines now and probably all I've done is stir up controversy and such... which I don't normally do, believe it or not. I don't want people thinking sour-ly (if that's even a word :P) of me. I give up and give in.

Heck, we could ALL bewrong ... so who cares, right? ^_^;;

Re: Gods Gender?

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

Yargh! Lin, for the last time, YOU AREN'T BEING OFFENSIVE! *takes deep breaths and snugs Lin!*

*points to self* This is Elfie. Elfie loves a good argument, especially when said argument is theological. Perhaps "argument" isn't quite the word I'm looking for. I think a better word would probably be "debate." The gender of God is not something that will ruin any of our faiths. I, personally, find it an interesting theological question. If you stop commenting in my LJ, I'll go to yours. So there. :P

Seriously, though. You aren't stirring up trouble, and, as far as I can tell, no one is mad at you, least of all me. I enjoy reading your opinions (and the opinions of others), even if I don't necessarily agree. Other people make me think, and I like that. Everyone has his/her own opinion, and that's part of what makes everyone unique.

I tried leaving a long and involved reply to the stuff about the gender of God, but my LJ informed me that my comment was too long to be posted and told me to go back and fix it. So, I hit the back button. No comment. AAAARGH!

Therefore, my entire next entry will probably be on the gender (or non-gender) of God and what I think about it. Please feel free to comment there, disagree with me, anything! It's nice to know that people are out there listening! *BIG RESNUGS!*

P.S. You need to move up here. Immediately. Tell your husband I said so.

Re: move...?

[honchi.livejournal.com]

Ah-hahaha... you try and tell him! XD Every time I do, he gives me that sad sorry look and peers at the ground nodding and telling me that he hasn't decided yet... that he's too scared to decide. :\ *siiiiiigh*

It's a huge commitment - I totally understand from his standpoint, but FOR GOODNESS SAKES... I love him, but I wish he'd make up his mind! ;_; I personally don't see a future by staying here, y'know? :\ Paying $1500/month in rent is really hurting us too... since I'm the only income (and I only get a measly $12.75/hour :P) *sigh*

Well, as far as the God's gender issue goes, I don't know what to say anymore. ^^; I've said what I've thought... so um, yeah. ^^; I hope I'm not coming off close-minded, because I'm not (or so I atleast like to believe >.<)... but unless I've seen more and read more, that's pretty much what I think. *shrugs*

Thanks for being so kind to me, Elfie. ^.^; I really appreciate it muchly. *hugs*
(and I know what you mean about the posting frustration in LJ -- that's happened to me before. >.< *grumbles* Kowaisou! *hugs again*)

[shiranai.livejournal.com]

If the link posted by honchi is correct, then it seems that any argument for "euthanizing" her is nill because she's not in a "traditional" coma. If her husband has, infact, been denying her the medical care that could have brought her out of her condition, especially since he is sitting on $750,000 that should be used for her care, I'm surprised he can't be found criminaly negligent!

There HAVE been people who have woken up from long comas (one recently where a man was in a coma since the 1980s and recently woke up) anyway. It isn't as if it can't happen.

A very difficult situation...

[atrivus.livejournal.com]

I don't have the foggiest idea what I would choose for a loved one in this situation. It's a matter in which I hope and pray that I will NEVER have to decide upon.

On the one hand, if someone was entirely braindead, had little or no hope of recovery, and was essentially tied to life and prevented from release by life support, it would seem the greatest act of cruelty and selfishness to keep them here on this Earth just because I was too clingy to want to let them pass on.

On the other hand, if they were physically and/or mentally incapable of communicating their own personal wishes and desires under the circumstances, it would be the height of arrogant presumption to just make the decision FOR them. To take them off of life support when I was unable to know for certain what they desired at that moment in time would also be an act of cruelty, because it would deny them the right to live. That's the same reason that I'm set so strongly against abortion; spiritual/Christian reasons aside, taking the life of a child before it is born and capable of deciding for itself denies what all living beings have when they are created; the fundamental right simply to LIVE, taking the opportunity to experience life before it's even capable of being recieved.

As I said, it's a very difficult situation. Mind you, I'm not making this comment specifically about Terri's situation, but more in response to your question about whether it would be best to take anyone off of life support in that situation.

[saraphina-marie.livejournal.com]

I have been following that case since I am a Floridian. And Gov. Bush is trying to get an injunction to save her but there isn't much he can do.
It's pretty sad.
And while I am a strong proponent of euthenasia for people as wella s pets if they are in pain, the people ahve to be able to make that decision and it shouldn't be a two-week long starving to death.
The news spin on it out here is that her parents are wrong and just can't accept that thier daughter is no longer a "person" but a "vegetable" and that they are in denial and the husband is doing what is best for the whole family.
Its tricky and sticky...because she isn't really responsive. But I have been footage of her and she's awake, her eyes follow people around the room, she just can't really move much or speak at all.
But even if her quality of life is conpromised, still starving to death over 10 days to 2 weeks is inhumane!
The husband who is pushing this so hard seems like an ass to me. My question in all of this is what has he to gain from her death?
I hope he gets knocked into a coma on his way to cash the check and someone decides he's too far gone to live so he can know what he's done.
Grrrrrr.
Or has to face his wife in the Great Hereafter and look her in the eye after what he's pulled.

But I am glad to know that this has attracted the attention and prayers/good wishes/feelings of people all around the country. This woman deserves all of that and more.
I wish her husband would let her parents in to see her as she died. but he's afriad they will sneak food to her and prolong it or something so they are banned from her bedside. :-(

Death with dignity

[haddassah.livejournal.com]

Well you know me, we have been friends for 10 years, and I am sure that you know that I am loath to think that I could someday be in the same situation as that family, I know that I would never want to be in a condition in which my family had to watch me die horribly and slowly by starvation and I know that as a parent, the cruelest thing that you can go through is having to bury your child, after all, thats not how life is supposed to work, we are supposed to go before our children. Dave and I have discussed this same situation, and he and I both know that we would not want each other to go through what this husband has gone through, watching the woman he loves simply exist, not live, but exist. The problem is that Terri cannot tell those around her what she wants, so you have two different camps sitting there and presuming to speak for someone that cannot speak for herself.
This is a perfect example of why one needs to make their wishes clear as to what they want done in case, God forbid, one is in this condition, so that those around them do not have to go through this same thing. That is why we have living wills, we must utilize them, we must learn from this.
Lastly, when Daves mother was at the end of her life in this world last year, she made it clear that she did not want "some doctor jumping up and down on her chest" she just wanted to go to God when she was called, this was hard for all of us, but it is what she wanted and to have gone against her wishes would have been selfish.